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Post by loverofbeers on Nov 8, 2011 2:03:21 GMT -5
Breaking news, MY champ has passed away. A much greater man than Muhammed Ali, Joe Frazier has passed from liver cancer.
A great Boxing Documentary from HBO called The Thrilla in Manilla is a must watch if you don't know Joe's side of his feud with Ali. Ali was a major piece of shit on numerous times to Joe, who was a major reason that Ali was reinstated into professional boxing. Even helped Ali with cash on occasion.
R.I.P. Champ
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Post by loverofbeers on Nov 8, 2011 3:15:09 GMT -5
From the wikipedia article on The Thrilla in Manilla.
Thrilla in Manila Date October 1, 1975 Location Araneta Coliseum, Quezon City, Philippines Title(s) on the line WBC/WBA Heavyweight Championship Undisputed World Heavyweight Championship
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Muhammad Ali vs. Joe Frazier The Greatest Smokin' Joe Tale of the tape Louisville, KY, U.S. From Philadelphia, PA, U.S. 48–2 (35 KO) Pre-fight record 32–2 (27 KO) WBC/WBA Heavyweight Champion Undisputed World Heavyweight Champion Recognition
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Result Ali won via 14th round TKO
The Thrilla in Manila was the third and final famous boxing match between Muhammad Ali and Joe Frazier for the Heavyweight Boxing Championship of the World, fought at the Araneta Coliseum in Quezon City, Metro Manila, Philippines on October 1, 1975.
The bout is often ranked as one of the greatest fights of 20th century boxing, and is the climax to the bitter rivalry between Ali and Frazier over who was the legitimate Heavyweight Champion. That situation came about after Ali was stripped of the title over his refusal to join the armed forces when drafted during the Vietnam War. Some years later, Frazier petitioned President Nixon to restore Ali's right to box, thereby bringing about the so called Fight of the Century between two undisputed heavyweight champions in 1971.
During the whole period from before their first to their last face-off in Manila, Ali had used his wit, sharp tongue, and position with the press to take characteristic verbal pot shots at Frazier (as was his practice with all opponents—and which made good copy and controversy) but these became particularly intense, controversial and at times ugly and this verbal battery heated the rivalry into new territory.
Pre-fight Philippine President Ferdinand Marcos offered to hold the bout in Metro Manila and sponsor it to divert attention from the social turmoil that the country was experiencing, having declared martial law three years earlier.[1][2] Don King, amused by the gesture, agreed to hold the fight at the Araneta Coliseum in Quezon City.[1] Produced by King and broadcast to many countries worldwide with HBO's antenna, The Thrilla in Manila had a tremendous media following.
The mood of the two fighters and their camps could not have been further apart. In Ali's camp the mood was jovial, and lighthearted. According to Ali's longtime physician and cornerman Ferdie Pacheco, it was believed by Ali and his trainers that Joe Frazier was washed up after his devastating loss to George Foreman, and the relative ease with which Ali had defeated Frazier in their rematch after that fight seemed to bear this out. The general consensus was that Ali was doing Frazier a favor, giving Joe one last big payday before sending him off into retirement, and as a result Ali did relatively little training, instead concentrating on the torrid affair he was having with Veronica Porsche, and amusing the vast entourage that had come to be nicknamed "The Ali Circus". Later, when Ali's then wife Belinda Ali found out that not only was Ali carrying on this affair but was introducing Veronica as his wife, she stormed into the Philippines, causing yet another distraction.
Frazier, meanwhile, was training with a grim and determined intensity. Frazier had never forgiven Ali's perceived invective towards him prior to their first fight. During the buildup to this rubber match, Ali added to this by calling Frazier a "gorilla", primarily because it rhymed with "Manila."
Frazier claims that he felt that Ali had betrayed him, because Frazier had attended numerous tribunals, hearings, and public relations functions in support of Ali throughout his three and a half year exile from boxing, which occurred after his draft refusal. Frazier's support of Ali extended beyond Ali's legal difficulties: Frazier ardently supported Ali in his attempt to have his boxing license restored. Frazier also provided Ali some financial support during his exile. Ali later asserted that he did so in an attempt to promote their fights and increase the gate. The period of social unrest of the era is important to locate in context, as Ali as a social phenomenon transcended boxing. Frazier's bitter hatred for Ali drove Frazier to train relentlessly to defeat Ali.
Ali tried to promote further interest in the fight by taunting Frazier at every opportunity, most famously by punching a rubber gorilla meant to represent Frazier during a press conference while saying: "It's gonna be a thrilla, and a chilla, and a killa, when I get the Gorilla in Manila."
In the documentary, Joe, and a Filipino witness recounted how Ali called out to Joe from outside their hotel, on the backside where the media were never at, and when Joe came to the balcony, Ali shot a gun at him, using blanks, to further unnerve Frazier. Just like Ali did with good old George Foreman, Ali tore the black community by trying to "out-Africa" Frazier at times, and at other times throwing out racial epithets like "gorilla".
Did you know that as a member of The Nation of Islam, Ali called out for the separation of the races to an audience made up of the KKK. The video is out there, I've watched it on the documentary.
I bring this up, because Frazier never got his due, and a punk like Ali became the darling of the media.
Joe Frazier was a good man. Ask George Foreman or Larry Holmes. I'm opening up a Real Ale Lost Gold IPA, Cheers to the Champ!
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Post by wulf on Nov 8, 2011 13:13:45 GMT -5
That whole time period of boxing in the 70s was a huge phenomenon, I remember it as a big part of my childhood. Everyone involved were bigger than life characters and I doubt we'll ever see their like again in our life time. Rest in Peace Smokin Joe.
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Post by loverofbeers on Nov 8, 2011 15:18:49 GMT -5
Wulfie, I knew you'd respond to this post, and I knew pretty much what you would say. And I knew that I'd agree with ya.
MMA, aka Fake Wrestling, being a lowest common denominator sport for our post-MTV generation, as well as the overall legacy of Tyson and that scumbag Don King in boxing, killed interest in the heavyweight division. I do respect Holyfield and every boxer that ever defeated Tyson (I looooove Buster Douglas).
We will never see an era in boxing, rather a generation again with the likes of Jerry Quarry, George Foreman, Ken Norton, Cassius Clay, Larry Holmes, or Smokin Joe.
I'd been following Joe for the last few years. The man had a heart of gold.
I read last night that Ali had his cornerman cut his gloves at the end of the 14th round of The Thrilla in Manilla. He was quitting, but before he had the chance, the ref stopped the fight fearing for Joe. Ali said that at that moment, he was closer to dieing than at any other point in his life.
Ali also once said that ONLY Frazier ever talked back to him during a fight. Joe was the man.
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Post by loverofbeers on Nov 8, 2011 16:30:59 GMT -5
Here is my third personal favorite fight, and my second favorite in terms of classics.
I bash Ali a lot, but I have to give the bastard his due, he was the beginning of the greatest boxing generation wih his chasing of Sonnie Liston, and he was that generation's ending with his humbling defeat at the hands of Larry Holmes, a good man.
My all time favorite fight is The Rumble in the Jungle, where Ali pulled off the smartest win I have ever seen. There is a great documentary of THAT fight, When We Were Kings which features Ali, Foreman, and the Godfather of Soul! A great documentary, and I miss my copy of that, and the aforementioned Thrilla in Manilla documentary. Bi-polar ex-friends are best to be avoided, so bah-bah dvds!
My ADD got me again, I know I'm long-winded.
I believe I'm posting the entire Thrilla in Manilla for anyone interested in watching a classic or for any fellow students of the sport. Enjoy.
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Post by loverofbeers on Nov 8, 2011 17:32:17 GMT -5
So I read the tribute at IYH. Hats off to Spec and LABlue. Next two pics are dedicated to you gentlemen. Attachments:
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Post by loverofbeers on Nov 8, 2011 17:35:47 GMT -5
I really want these toys! Who is gonna teach me how to properly post pics here? Anyone? Attachments:
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Post by wulf on Nov 9, 2011 0:21:50 GMT -5
Your pics seem to be showing up fine. I was talking to my mother about this earlier, everyone back then watched boxing and it was 100% because of these men, even if you weren't a "fan" you knew the names and you knew Howard Cosell. Now, Tyson aside, I couldn't name a single active boxer.
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Post by jakeawesomesnake on Nov 9, 2011 0:59:29 GMT -5
I used to be a boxing fan and still enjoy watching the old classics ,but just can't get into it anymore ever since MMA came around.
Anyway R.I.P. as much as I'm a fan of Ali as a boxer if you look close you can tell he was kind of an asshole.
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Post by loverofbeers on Nov 9, 2011 19:57:13 GMT -5
"Truth be told", I was a huge Ali mark until three years ago. He was my all-time favorite athlete. Ever.
When that documentary I keep citing, TTIM, started I was outraged in the first five minutes when Joe said that Ali's Parkinson might be a punishment from God for his past actions and words.
Fifteen minutes into the film, I had given up on Ali, the man, for ever and completely agreed with Joe's sentiments. And the film continues after that, with footage of Ali being a race-baiting assclown, boxing a man in a gorilla suit, punching a small rubber toy gorilla, and preaching his views to an ecstatic Klan.
Even those that praise Ali like Holmes and Foreman, admit to his faults, but are gushing in their love for Joe and his character and morals.
That said, yep, I hate to say it, Ali was the greatest boxer in my opinion overall (and Jack Johnson in his era of the 1910s, and Tyson was THE monster of the 1980s).
The Rumble in the Jungle, short-term, was a genius 'dance' as Old Man Funk would say, but longterm, TRITJ along with the Frazier/Ali fights, most likely caused his Parkinson's to develop or to be much more severe. Citing interviews here.
JAS, I like to give MMA a hard time and I like how "fake wrestling" sounds. I've watched a smallish number of PPVs, but I have watched every fight with Da Man, Brock.
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